Living Loud vocal thoughts on life, liberty, and spirituality

  • Bio
  • Blog
  • Literature
  • FAQ

Monthly archive: September, 2010

“Who Are ‘We’?”: An Open Response to Brian McLaren

September 12, 2010, by Doug No comments yet

As I said in my last post, I wrote a response to Brian McLaren on the introduction to his “Clean Energy Conversation” series, questioning the idea of “we” doing something about the problem of dirty energy. He responded to my email publicly. A week later I emailed him some further thoughts on the subject of “we,” though I have yet to read a response personally or on his website (which is where he typically responds).

With Brian’s permission, I am reprinting the second letter below:

Brian,

I want to first thank you for the thoughtful response to my questions, and for your time in addressing them. I’m grateful for your insight, and appreciative of your “learner’s spirit.” Both of us have in common that we’re very willing to be wrong, even if we’re convinced we’re pretty well on track with something.

The quick points first:

I don’t believe you were (or are) advocating communism or socialism. My point was merely that such schemes of price control are not components of free societies but of those whose goal is to orchestrate good behavior among citizens for particular ends. F.A. Hayek identified this problem as “the pretense of knowledge.” And even while you are only talking about a particular policy, energy is a critical and integral component to just about every facet of our lives, and would be an enormous intervention (that’s not necessarily problematic, just a point I was making).

I also didn’t assume you believe that “all would be well” with the right laws or a good clean energy policy. As you correctly noted, today’s solutions typically produce tomorrow’s problems. Given the knowledge problem (noted above), and the issue of “we” I explain below, I’m unconvinced that repricing is a viable solution to the energy problem.

Last (of the quick things), when I wrote, “I cannot help but laugh at the notion that the right laws will actually make our society better,” I wasn’t implying that there are no such things as good laws. I was merely pointing out that laws can only do so much and laws that “make society better” come with a cost. Some laws clean things up on the outside, but cause resentment and bitterness among people groups that might have been reconciled by different means. All remedies have unseen consequences.

Now to the heart of the conversation. As I reflected over the past few days upon what you said, I think I’ve identified more of my core concerns over the use of the word “we.” You and I probably agree that each of us has to work within the social and political structures within which we live. But I also would guess we agree that settling for the status quo can be dangerous if we accept it for what it is, rather than challenge its existence, what it stands for, and the destruction it is wreaking.

A large component of justice is the proper use of power. I’m sure there is more to the definition of justice (as there always is), but with regards to power and authority, how such power is delegated and implemented is very key. And this is where the “we” gets really messy.

“We” can be delineated in a million different ways. “We” could be the people of a county, a state, a nation, or a continent. “We” could be the people of a racial segment of society. “We” could be the people of the Gulf States, or the East Coast, or the West Coast. However “we” is defined, the larger the group, the less meaningful it becomes. Americans are accustomed to thinking about “we” in terms of national identity, in part because we are conditioned to think in terms of “nations.” Yet on a national scale of 300 million people, “we” becomes a precarious entity because the hands of power are concentrated at the top. Phrases such as “shared action” become very diluted the more and more people we include. It also means that more voices become unheard and their needs go unaddressed in the process.

When power gets concentrated by placing it in the hands of those who are at the top, “we” becomes meaningless and justice is sacrificed for political ends. It also invites corporations to lobby for power, thus resulting in Big Retail, Big Oil, and perhaps eventually Big Corn and Big Wind. Volleying the hands of power may result in gain for the Big Guy, but I doubt either of us likes the idea of “Big Business.” But when power is spread throughout society in such a way that more and more people have control over their own lives and property (and those property rights are protected), unjust authority and power structures begin to erode, and the term “we” becomes meaningful and practicable. The closer people are to those whom they’ve delegated authority and power, the less likely it is that those in power will abuse it.

With respect to energy policy specifically, I imagine you’ll agree that asking “why?” is a good start to the dirty energy problem. For instance, when the problem stated is that dirty energy is cheap, the immediate question to me is, “Why is it cheap?” More specifically, “What structural features allow it to be and keep it inexpensive so that alternatives are unprofitable?” Other questions might be, “Why is alternative energy so expensive, and why does it take an immense amount of capital to invest in it?”

If we can get to the bottom of why dirty energy is so cheap, and eliminate the incentives for it—tax structures, corporate welfare, and perverse incentives for oil companies—we might actually be able to see clean energy compete naturally, eventually putting dirty energy out of business, or minimize its usefulness. As it is, Big Oil enjoys a cozy relationship with the federal government. I think neither of us believes this is healthy, wise, or just. But rigging the economic structure of energy the opposite direction will likely have different problems (and maybe one’s we’re willing to live with), but is simply patchwork to the very torn and tattered fabric of energy policy.

You said you’ve studied this issue for quite a while and have acquaintances and friends with keen insight and knowledge. That’s great, and the truth needs to be spoken. But those folks “in the know” will not be the same folks making legislation (unless these people you know are politicians!). The incentives of a politician is not to have a cleaner earth, but to be re-elected and achieve political ends. They may say they care about the environment, and it may indeed be their heart’s desire. But power is an easy corrupter, and compromise (which is not always bad) often results in unintended negative consequences. Barack Obama campaigned on change, but he only has so much influence as President. I always cut politicians some slack because they can only follow through to advocate for what they promised. Actualized promises are few and far between (which is why I’m not a big fan of federal government solutions).

You are right that our Christian identity does not give us “exemption from our responsibility to our neighbors for the common good.” And it certainly does “obligate us to be involved with real passion and energy.” Our interactivity ought to lead us to mutual responsibility, which is why I typically advocate a more decentralized approach to where decisions are made and where power resides. The more centralized the power, the less likely justice will be actualized. There are possible exceptions, of course, but I hope you would agree that when people have their own power taken away from them (rather than their willingly delegating it), justice is not near.

Many thanks for your time!

Doug

Doug

Doug Stuart is a committed follower of Jesus and passionate about building for the Kingdom of God through education and mobilization. He is a regular writer at LibertarianChristians.com as well as the founder of Living Loud.

Website - More Posts

A Conversation With Brian McLaren

September 6, 2010, by Doug No comments yet

Christian author, speaker, and activist Brian McLaren is one of my favorite Christian authors. He’s provocative, thought-provoking, and he’s an incredibly nice human being, even to those who attack and criticize him. While I don’t agree with Brian on several things, I believe he offers the kind of humble questioning that every faith deserves, especially the Christian faith.

I read Brian’s blog daily, and have frequently emailed him questions that he has answered publicly. Recently he started a series (that was cross-posted on the Sojourners website) called “A Clean Energy Conversation.” His main point is that we need to begin a conversation about the problem of “dirty energy.” While I had some basic economic concerns to his general proposals in Part 1, I wrote a passionate email to Brian the very same day:

I just read your post on Clean Energy Conversion, and honestly it really hit me the wrong way. I don’t disagree with point #1. I’m personally looking into solar energy for my house and I drive a fuel-efficient vehicle. In theory my belief about clean energy is that the sooner, the better. The question is how does this occur?

So what’s my beef? It’s in one two-letter word: “we.” Who is “we”? As you always point out to your critics, their words have so much “loaded” in them that it’s difficult to respond without completely talking past each other. I feel like progressives are beginning to suffer from something I call “we-dolatry.” Instead of placing emphasis on the individual, the emphasis is placed on the collective. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that approach, but what happens when the “we” makes the individual subordinate? The philosophy of “we” strips away individuality away without realizing it (because I know that’s not what you intend to do).

So when you say, “we must re-price dirty energy,” there are a few unspoken assumptions that I really struggle with:

1. “we”—whoever that is—know what to re-price it at; this strikes me as naive at best and arrogant at worst. If we’ve learned anything the past 100 years of modern history, it’s that human beings do not know how to correctly “price” something on a large scale that is beneficial for society. It’s always led to mass poverty and social injustice.

2.  “we” means everybody in our society; what is unsaid is the belief that a collective “we” acts, but this cannot be true. At best our elected leaders “act” on our behalf, but what about the untold thousands or millions that are harmed in the process? Humans are not individual automata, they are individuals with subjective preferences. “Love your neighbor” means in part to respect those preferences. If they are immoral, wrong, or dangerous, they ought to be addressed, but I cannot help but laugh at the notion that the right laws will actually make our society better

So the question is, Who is “we”? And how exactly do “we” make decisions? Since we don’t live in a democracy, what constitutes “we”? And even if “we” act, how do we know that’s best for everyone? By what standard do we measure whether or not “we” have made the right decision? With respect to “wisely investing” in the dividends of re-pricing, I must ask, “How do we know that we are wisely investing?” What mechanism is going to tell us? A committee? The government? A group of really concerned citizens? The next election?

I know you will address these in more detail, but it bothers me that the solution is always begun with “we” because it speaks of the assumption that somebody (or a group of somebodies) knows how “we” ought to do things in society. I simply cannot agree with  the belief that if we have the right laws, the right regulations, the right amount of taxes, the right [whatever] to orchestrate society in a peaceful way, then all will be well. Why? Because large-scale orchestration of society has never worked. Invoking biblical support sounds great to win over Christians, but it strikes me as aligned with the constitutional approach to the scriptures.

I hope I’m not coming off too strong, but I shed tears over the attitudes of people who arrogantly think they know how to run society, because the people in society without a voice suffer. I don’t think you’re arrogant by any definition, but it appears as if you still are okay advocating for social change in the same way. I’m looking forward to your series. I hope I’m convinced a bit more than my fears outline here. Every time I read stuff like this, I think of Greg Boyd’s statement to Jim Wallis in a debate a few years ago: “I don’t see how our commitment to Christ gives us a unique privileged stance on having an extra wisdom to tell government, ‘Here’s what you should do.’ The hope of the world isn’t found in our tweaking the government the right way.”

I also assume your ability to read the unspoken assumptions in my own questions (a skill I am thankful you have!), so if you respond to my email at all, I’d be happy to be challenged in those assumptions.

A week later, Brian posted a very engaging and critical response to my email. While in retrospect I was probably “over-passionate” (as I can become about these things), he was overall very gracious and generous. I spent some time reflecting over his response, and talked a bit with my wife about a response. Not wanting to send another rapid-fire missive, I spent some time crafting a response, which I will post in the near future. For those interested in the conversation, I suggest reading McLaren’s response first. He has plenty of good things to say.

Doug

Doug Stuart is a committed follower of Jesus and passionate about building for the Kingdom of God through education and mobilization. He is a regular writer at LibertarianChristians.com as well as the founder of Living Loud.

Website - More Posts

Follow Us!

Follow Us on FacebookFollow Us on TwitterFollow Us on E-mail

Archives

Currently Reading

  • Liberty Defined by Ron Paul
  • The Prophetic Imagination by Walter Brueggemann

Read at Your Own Risk

  • Acton Institute
  • Antiwar.com
  • Art Carden
  • Brian McLaren
  • Campaign for Liberty
  • Cato At Liberty
  • FEE
  • God’s Politics
  • John Stossel
  • Lew Rockwell
  • Libertarian Christians (LCC)
  • Life and Faith
  • Mike Todd (Waving or Drowning)
  • Mises.org
  • Robert P. Murphy
  • Simply Recipes
  • The C.S. Lewis Society
  • The Freeman
  • The Independent Institute
  • Waving or Drowning

Recent comments

  • Zeldamaster17: FYI, we are mortal...that's the whole point of your religion...
  • conscious: In the hierarchy of tyrants he sure have the highest...
  • Dorretta: I  think Hitler had more mercy then this "Jesus God...
  • Jesus wasn't god: Er, Jesus wasn't God.
  • Terry Pearson: I loved that book as well. I read it a...

Tag Cloud

abortion Austrian Economics Barack Obama brian mclaren capitalism christianity crisis Economics economy education Election fascism FDR Freedom free market government Great Depression greed health care hell Jesus jim wallis john mccain justice kingdom of God Libertarianism liberty marxism Obama Politics poverty pro-choice progressives Rediscovering Values ron paul Sarah Palin school choice social gospel socialism social justice society Sojourners taxation taxes thomas sowell

This is widgetised area:
Footer › Column 1

This is widgetised area:
Footer › Column 2

This is widgetised area:
Footer › Column 3

Copyright © 2011 Doug Stuart. All Rights Reserved.